I spend a lot of time with my leadership team, both as a group and then one-to-one in terms of working through some of those issues trying to find the best talent, trying to unleash the talent inside the organization, and making those decisions when you have to. That makes my job a lot easier and it lowers our investment costs. It accused the company of copying some of the technologies most critical to its speakers, including its Trueplay tuning tool . They say, Oh, well, that? In response, Google had to change how some of its speakers worked, including reducing some functionality. In other areas, Web3 might be an area, or a metaverse or VR or AR, whatever you want to talk about. As part of its suit, Sonos asked for a sales ban on tons of Google hardware, including Nest. Has it made it better? We had to stand up for all the inventions that weve had. Going to the labels for access is a different layer of the music rights stack. NP: They had a system called HEOS you kind of knew those were good. 8. But now youre also responsible for what they say or do or program, which I think has been shocking to many tech companies. Sonos submitted its complaint to the ITC in January of last year, in tandem with a lawsuit in the Los Angeles Federal District Court. How do you pick a law firm? Google, I think, infringes over 100 of those today. Lazarus says Sonos was granted a preliminary injunction in a German court against a Google affiliate for allegedly infringing on a Sonos patent that enables and controls the transfer of media content from a mobile phone or tablet to one or more playback devices. It was probably an advantage that we were distributed from the start, starting simultaneously in Santa Barbara, Boston, adding Seattle along the way, and obviously Amsterdam. A lot of people have Sonos Radio and listen to it, I think its our third-most-listened-to service at this point, but theyre still listening to Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music whatever they subscribe to for on-demand as well. Both complaints were filed in the US District Court for the Northern . We had tried to address this constructively. I think the country would be better off with thousands of companies that are innovating and employing more and more people than enabling all that power in a few hands. Weve always found in history that its dangerous to have all that power in just a few hands. "We will seek further review and continue to defend ourselves against Sonos' frivolous claims about our partnership and intellectual property," a Google spokesperson told us. Others in the industry are more constructive in their conversations with us. The ruling follows a lawsuit Sonos filed in January 2020, alleging that the search giant stole its technology when the two companies partnered to make sure Google's music service worked well with . Smart-speaker firm Sonos has won a major legal battle against Google over patents it said the firm had infringed. Amazon is right there; they run the same playbook. Lazarus calls the . This lawsuit has been brewing for two years, and the fact that Google wasn't prepared for workarounds on these issues when possible, given all that time, doesn't seem acceptable. We want to stay abreast of any of those changes. Sonos also sued Google at the International Trade Commission. When did you do it? Were proud that weve been able to do that for the going on 17 years weve shipped products. And we won on infringement on all five as well. They flood the market with them at probably below cost because theyre actually not looking to make money on those products. Thats one of those things that were being very thoughtful about: how we bring people together. And if somebody else just comes in and basically rips that off, thats wrong. NP: Obviously you guys have a lot of partnership deals with the platforms the Spotifys and Apples of the world. What investments are we going to make today that position us well into the future? It really is the core of the system and why we can introduce new products that make the system better over time. But it does seem like once you make that decision, it is inevitable that you will employ and spend more resources on software than hardware. I feel very bullish about the future as I think about the whole size of the audio market and where we are today. I think the other side of that coin is that, hey, if we are inventing things, people shouldnt just be able to copy those things and put those out into the world and do that. Its going to look very different. The audience cant see this, but I can see them. Its really led from the strategy of, What do we want to achieve in that particular area?. Apple, Amazon, they all spent similar amounts. If somebody decides, Hey, I dont want service A, for whatever reason they choose, they can go to service B. This category accounted for 18 percent of Alphabets revenue in the third quarter, which ended in September. Sonos filed yet another lawsuit against Google on Tuesday, alleging the tech giant copied more of its innovations, specifically for Google's smart speakers. From our perspective, my job was to assess the strength of the case, to make sure that we were rock-solid if Patrick wanted to move forward in this way. The Sonos vs Google Disaster Hammers Your Smart Speakers 23,693 views Jan 15, 2022 513 Dislike Share Automate Your Life 122K subscribers Sonos vs Google is getting ugly, and it's likely to. That is job one. All Rights Reserved, By submitting your email, you agree to our. They tell their friends and family to join Sonos. EL: I pick lawyers, not law firms. Sonos is making these claims in hopes that Google will just pay them royalties without doing their homework to find they shouldn't. Sonos is a patent troll and has been for a long time now. Sonos said it was pleased with the preliminary ruling, which it said "confirmed Google's blatant infringement" of Sonos patents . While Sonos is one of the most well-known and popular names in the industry, the low-cost approach taken by Amazon and Google has placed additional pressure on Sonos Thats the fun stuff that occurs out of everybodys line of sight the generational process of capturing one wave of innovation after the other. Sonos' Chief Legal Officer Eddie Lazarus called the ruling an "across-the-board" win and said Google's products still infringe the patents despite its attempts to design around them. The phrase you used was, biased to action, which I have ruthlessly stolen, by the way. January 7, 2022. Id put them on my desktop computer. Through this entire period, again, weve been continuing to innovate and introduce new products. Its the way the system works together. We have a really great culture. The system is designed so that those that invent can go and build on those inventions and go create businesses and employ lots of citizens, not for people to simply use their balance sheet to copy and try to destroy other companies. I started here at the beginning of 2019. Its probably somewhere in the middle in terms of where that is. Facebook, now renamed Meta, was sued in November by a now-defunct photo-sharing app, Phhhoto, which asserted that Facebook violated antitrust laws. Janko Roettgers. Sonos counterclaimed that Google's patent is invalid due to obviousness and lack of inventiveness. I think people can choose whether to listen or not. Sonos has claimed that it shared details of its technology with Google starting in 2013 when the two companies began working together. I just havent seen the technology yet applied in a way that theres an aha! moment for consumers. Its easy with hindsight to look at it and be cynical, but as you play it forward as well, it gets to, what kind of society do we want? Its easy to see on a spreadsheet that investing in engineers and hardware tooling will pay off and generate revenue if you get it right. Thats why 99% of my time goes into innovation, what are we doing for customers, all of those things. Sonos legal chief Eddie Lazarus was one of the key witnesses in Tuesday's hearing. Its easier in hindsight to understand that a company has been working on all of these great things. I think these are fundamental inventions that solved problems that nobody else had been able to solve before. PS: Id take you back to my point about the decision to sue Google and take this path. How do you make that decision? I guess its a choice, Nilay, at the end of the day, of, are we okay with the ultimate result where it is going to be one or two companies and we all work for those companies and we all buy our stuff from those companies? I think the real testament to my leadership is, long after Im gone, is Sonos growing, relevant, and still around? We did feel it was important at least to plug into that process and understand what was going on. Then we keep introducing at least two new products a year that help bring more people in, increasing the products per home. EL: Its somewhere in the middle. NP: Thats actually interesting because you litigated some of those patents before with Denon. Its really the Sonos story that does the work for us. Okay. NP: Lets talk about the actual Google case the patent case. Sonos Google infringed on five patents owned by the speaker maker Sonos, a judge for the US International Trade Commission ruled on Friday . Most of the commentary during the hearing focused on dominant market giants Amazon and Google, with. The other part of it is understanding whats happening in the industry and being able to make that shift, for instance, from digital downloads to streaming knowing how important it is to be engaging with all of those partners because we want to be there for our customers. That is the most important thing to me. But the core of Sonos business is never going to be to litigate and get a bunch of patent royalties. PS: Were watching the whole Web3 area to see what its impact on music and the industry will be at this point. We just think the self-evident nature of this, once people understand whats really happening, is going to carry the day. Similar topics This past August, a judge at the International Trade Commission ruled that Google had indeed infringed five of Sonos' patents. Actions speak louder than words. First of all, Id say it is totally bipartisan. The final ruling upheld a commission judges preliminary finding, in August, that Google should be subject to the import ban. Are you still hiring in Santa Barbara and Boston or are you hiring for software jobs anywhere now? We will seek further review and continue to defend ourselves against Sonoss frivolous claims about our partnership and intellectual property, Mr. Castaeda said in a statement. Sonos is in the middle of a few big policy issues in tech: the ever-present patent litigation discussion that happens, and antitrust law. In January 2020, Sonos filed two lawsuits against Google, claiming that the latter stole its multiroom speaker technology and infringed on 100 patents. The actual lawyer is right there. Wide Range of Sonos Products are Said to Infringe on Google Technologies. PS: Looking at the experience we were delivering on the radio service, as we looked at the service that we were providing, which was basically a directory of radio stations and those kind of things, one of the teams internally came up and said, Hey, this just doesnt fit with the kind of experience that we deliver. Do you have standards and practices for your radio station? How was Sonos structured when you took over? Sonos had asked the trade commission to block imports of Google products that the speaker company says infringes on its patents. Alphabet Inc.'s Google LLC filed two lawsuits Monday in a California federal court, alleging in one that Sonos Inc.'s audio players with a voice-control feature infringe three patents, and in the other that they infringe four different patents, expanding an already heated battle over royalties for various technologies.. It involved Eddie, my leadership team, and the board all deciding its time to do this. Im curious if youre thinking about that part as important to your business. NP: See, you start doing the lawsuits. We think thats horrible for the consuming public. Have you changed where youre hiring? Unfortunately, this means your existing speakers will lose a helpful feature, which is never a good thing. Where are we setting our priorities? My assumption is that Apples just taking the hit because they can afford it. We have over 1,000 patents. The decision is preliminary, and the commission. Down to the one. The company will not be allowed to import products that infringe on Sonos patents, including smart speakers, video streaming devices, and some computers and phones. The biggest thing at the end of the day is how were different from everybody else out there with our business model. I do think its existential as a society that we make sure that we have the right guardrails in place to spur competition and make sure that we can foster innovation in the country. That should help us hire more people, drive more innovation. How does a company like Sonos take what engineers and designers make and turn them into patents? Sonos followed up with an additional lawsuit over another five patents in September, specifically those for Google Chromecast Audio and its support for multiroom operations. Its a reasonably high-stakes event: youve got to look good, youve got to prepare. NP: Now the Sonos story involves some amount of political positioning. In return, Sonos filed another lawsuit in western Texas claiming Google violated another five patents. Epic Games, creator of the popular Fortnite game, sued Apple and Google over app store commissions. Best printer 2023: just buy this Brother laser printer everyone has, its fine, Google Glass Enterprise Edition is no more, The best Xbox controller to buy right now, SpaceX Starlink rolls out $200 per month global satellite internet package. Google took out all the photo sharing services back when they made Google Photos free. They actually put a price on Google Photos! Just think about where this goes and why the system was set up the way that it was. I try to keep it as small as possible in terms of that feeling, culturally, but its hard at this number, certainly. The resulting US International Trade Commission decision forced Google to apply ITC-approved software downgrades to remove infringing features from speakers, which . YouTube Music continues to go along. (More on that . The import ban will go into effect in 60 days. We need someone whos really going to appreciate and understand the nature of our business and then apply all the appropriate legal principles a person or a team that I have a lot of faith in. Were not seeing a great resignation. / Sign up for Verge Deals to get deals on products we've tested sent to your inbox daily. You can go see those and you can work around them if you want to invent. 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